sailboat chainplates

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Chainplates Revisited

Chainplate failures aren't common, but when one occurred on a new boat during its inaugural sail—with our reviewer aboard—we knew it was time to investigate. here's the result of our initial probing..

Following our review of the new J/133 (PS Oct. 1, ’04), in which we recounted a chainplate failure aboard hull No. 3 on its maiden voyage, a reader’s letter prompted us to review the manner in which manufacturers design and construct the critical connections between mast, shrouds, and a boat’s structure. In the case of the J/133, we concluded that the construction method—a contemporary yet time-tested approach—was properly conceived, but poorly executed.

The folks at J/Boats declined to offer specific comments, but the boat’s builder—Pearson Composites, LLC (formerly TPI)—told us that ours was a fair assessment of the situation. (More on that later.)

Nonetheless, the issue of chainplate construction and rig attachment demands further examination, particularly for the owners of older boats whose vessels may be susceptible to chainplate failure.

Like the human anatomy, which is supported by a series of bones connected at joints (“head bone connected to the neck bone, neck bone connected to the shoulder bone”), a sailboat’s standing rigging reflects many similar connections. At one end of any stayed rig, the head of the mast is supported by stays and shrouds that in most cases disappear belowdecks to connect to a metal, wood, or fiberglass section that itself is attached to a bulkhead, the hull’s topsides or bottom, or an interior grid system.

With any rig, contrary forces are at work. At the masthead, tensioned shrouds pulling chainplates upward from a grid in the bottom of the hull, for instance, are at the same time pushing the butt of the mast, or a compression post, in the opposite direction. Consider that the headstay and backstay are pulling the bow and stern upward, and the conflicting forces on the entire structure are enormous.

“The static pressure on the hull of the Santa Cruz 70 produced by the mast, with the boat sitting static at a dock, is approximately 28,000 pounds,” explained Lance Brown, president of Santa Cruz Yachts. Given that, it’s no surprise that America’s Cup boats, which take advantage of every weight-saving method available, often have major failures.

Creating a proper set of connectors, then, requires that designer, engineer, boatbuilder, and rigging specialist each scientifically calculate the loads that will act on the sails in wind and sea, and the loadbearing capacity of the standing rigging, which will ultimately determine the lamination schedule for chainplates or the appropriate strength characteristics of whatever material is used to fabricate these critical connectors.

Ty Goss, of the custom sales division at Navtec, told us that “Once the loads on rigging and turnbuckles are determined, our prototypes are tested by running fatigue tests.

“We will load a turnbuckle to its breaking strength and stress it 120,000 to 200,000 times (1.4 times its projected life expectancy) in 15-second cycles. If it doesn’t break, we know we have the right product.”

On older boats, chainplates were often fashioned from necessary, but unsightly, metal straps attached to the exterior. Unless an owner diligently polished them, the straps or their fittings typically rusted, which produced blemishes on the topsides. These same rust lines, however, could provide an owner with visible evidence of the potential deterioration of the plates, or their fasteners.

On modern fiberglass boats, chainplates are usually out of sight and out of mind. As builders became more confident of the bonding capacity and strength of fiberglass, they began relocating these straps on the hull’s inner skin, or bedded in bulkheads. However, as with the exterior attachments, the new method was not without its drawbacks, since a leak at deck level could result in delamination of the fiberglass, or a waterfilled core; either condition reducing the structural integrity of the components.

Various methods of attaching plates are used, including the method employed by Pearson Composites, LLC in the construction of the new J/133. In that case, the shrouds are connected to a deck plate, which in turn is connected to a tie rod, which is connected to a horizontal pin beddedin a fiberglass buttress in the hull. At PC, LLC, the buttress is a solid fiberglass block with a hole bored that is within 5/1000th” of the size of the pin. This basic design is not new technology; grand-prix racing boats have been employing similar designs for 20 years.

The failure of the chainplate on the J/133 was the byproduct of a miscommunication within the builder’s facility, according to Stephen A Misencik, director of engineering and design at PC, LLC.

“Miscommunications between engineering and the production floor caused the installation of the deck chainplate assembly to be located 2″ aft of where it was originally designed to be,” Miscencik told us. “This resulted in the tie rod being mis-aligned with both the deck fitting as well as the hull buttress/pinion assembly.”

The result: “When the mast and spreaders were constructed by Hall Spars, the shroud-rod connection did not line up properly, placing excessive loads on the fiberglass buttress.” Under sail in 30- to 35-knot winds and a short, steep chop on Lake Michigan, he added “the flange bond on the starboard side on Hull No. 3 failed. Only one edge of the buttress disbonded from the hull.”

When J/Boat’s designers and Misencik compared notes the day after the mishap, the error was discovered, and appropriate modifications completed for future boats. Only one of the five boats that were completed at that time suffered the failure, though a factory team was dispatched to rebuild each of them.

Misencik agrees that factory workers could have been alert to a problem when they encountered difficulties installing the misaligned rod during the construction process.

Coincidentally, he also describes a problem on some early models of the J/109 that were attributed to the improper use of a bonding material. In that case, chainplates were bonded to a grid framework in the bottom of the hull with ITW Plexus adhesive.

“That’s the wrong material to use when trying to produce a rigid structure from two pieces of material,” he explained. The result was excessive flex between the chainplate and the structure. The problem was corrected by replacing the bonding agent with an epoxy mix.

Dave Gerr, director of the Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology and a noted yacht designer, told us that the first calculation to be considered in chainplate design is the boat’s righting moment.

“Then, the design objective is to take the calculated loads from the shrouds and transmit them to the chainplates, without allowing the deckplate to leak,” he said.

“It is important to work out and detail the fastening of the chainplate to the hull because the loads on chainplates are immense,” he added.

Designers typically specify standing rigging and attachments, including bolts, that are 1.3 to 1.4 times stronger than the calculated load. This fudge factor is intended to offset the fact that, regardless of the material used, it will degrade over time with aging and a lack of maintenance.

“Special considerations, though, relate to the intended use of the boat,” said Santa Cruz Yachts’ Lance Brown. That company’s slogan, “Fast is Fun,” was coined by founder Bill Lee, who built a reputation for designing and constructing rocketships. His legendary Merlin was a record setting 68 footer that introduced “downwind sleds” to the sailing vernacular, and remains the precursor of a breed of boats that have evolved to become the sailing equivalent of a Ferrari.

“We built the Santa Cruz 50 and Santa Cruz 70s as race boats, so the interiors were of little consideration, allowing us to place chainplates wherever was necessary to align with the shrouds,” said Brown. Chainplates on the 50-footer were installed using a method mirroring that of the J/133. Shrouds on cruising boats, however, may be located outboard at the rail, for instance, at the expense of tighter sheeting angles and greater pointing ability. And when located outboard, they may be buried behind cabinetry as an aesthetic consideration.

“The Santa Cruz 52 (see PS review July 1, ’95), a performance cruiser, is fitted with conventional living and sleeping quarters, so we had to take into consideration the location of seat backs and shelving. We are taking the same approach with the Santa Cruz 53C, which will be introduced in April, 2005.”

One conventional method of locating chainplates out of the way is to employ flat metal sections attached to bulkheads with fasteners.

“The fastenings,” explained Gerr, “have to be adequately strong, as must the structure they fasten to, in order to distribute the load into the hull. The key to sizing the bolts is to make sure the load from the shroud does not exceed the local crushing strength of the plywood or the laminate that is added to the ply bulkhead to take the chainplate loads.

“Elongated chainplate bolt holes in bulkheads are common trouble spots. Without an adequate load bearing area, a bulkhead will eventually crush above the bolt, resulting in the chainplate pulling upward, elongating the bolt holes, and causing the chainplate to leak.” In a worst case scenario, the chainplate may pull through the deck.”

To avoid overpopulating a bulkhead with bolts, or using larger bolts, Gerr’s alternative is the installation of an annulus. “They are made of fairly high compressive strength material,” he said, “and increase the bearing area in the ply by making the annulus two times the bolt diameter.” The bolt is then installed through the center of the annulus. On older boats that evidence the potential for this type of failure, an annulus will extend the useful life of the bulkhead with a relatively easy and straightforward fix.

Brown describes the forces on chainplates, hull, and mast butt as “contrary forces in a big circle.” To disperse the loads in the new boat from Santa Cruz Yachts, the chainplate will be solid bar stock through-bolted with 12, 1/2″ bolts to a longitudinal stringer that in turn is bonded to the hull and adjoining bulkhead in multiple layers of 0 to 45-degree and 0 to 90-degree fiberglass laid in varied orientations from deck level to the keel. The bulkhead is located on the same reinforced section of the hull as the mast butt, and bonded to the hull and deck.

“That structure is so strong that we could cut the center out of the bulkhead without compromising its integrity,” Brown reported.

His comment brings to mind a common alternative to the chainplate bulkhead arrangement, which is the construction of a knee (envision an upside-down capital “L”), usually constructed of wood or fiberglass bonded to the hull and under the deck, to which the chainplate is attached. Oriented athwartships, the shape is typically long and narrow so as to accommodate furniture. In this arrangement, the chainlate resembles an inverted “T” shape and is typically cut from a single piece of stainless steel or bronze.

Though the knee is tabbed to the hull and deck, Gerr explained, “The knee’s tabbing is secondary bonding, which is structurally rather weak and can suffer from failure due to poor-quality installation, improper resin mixture,” or other factors. For that reason, manufacturers should build in “a large margin of safety,” he said, to ensure a tight structure that will endure hull and deck flex, as well as the worst of the elements.

The contemporary method of attaching chainplates involves the replacement of metal straps with tierods that are secured in the hull structure. In this instance, shrouds and rods meet at the center of two plates located on the top and underside of the deck. To produce proper angles at the intersection of the shroud and chainplate, and prevent leaks caused by the deck flexing, builders are employing self-aligning rod caps that reduce the possibility of a failure.

At the other end, in many cases the tie rod is attached to the hull or grid in a metal plate into which it is threaded; bonding to a fiberglass structure is an option. Thus, in many new boats, these shiny rods are exposed in the main saloon, but go unnoticed, allowing designers to meet an aesthetic challenge.

The Bottom Line Modern engineering techniques and construction methods employed by major manufacturers, as well as marketing and legal concerns, are resulting in the production of better boats than at any time in the history of fiberglass, witness the number of American boats that meet ABYC and CE standards. In this environment, the odds of a structural failure are remote and, most likely, occasioned by a failure during the production cycle, or an inferior component.

The rigging on these boats, however, is not to be neglected. As Brown explained of Roy Disney’s Santa Cruz 70 Pyewacket and her sisters, “those boats were well maintained and continually inspected. Losing a race as a result of mechanical failure was unusual.”

Regardless of the age of a boat, annual inspection of standing rigging remains a must. In addition to inspecting wire for breaks, an owner should carefully examine the chainplate system from the point where it reaches the deck to its termination. Loose deck plates may result in water invading the hull or deck. Rust on the chainplate or bolts may indicate deck leaks, loose bolts or nuts producing a water leak or, in the worst case, the total destruction of the plate itself. Inspecting bolts and plates on a bulkhead is a simple matter; and removing cushions and furniture to allow inspection of the entire plate system is time well spent.

A lesser effort might just invite major failure.

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Check Your Chainplates

• By Ann Hoffner
• Updated: August 26, 2011

Chainplate Check

After completing our longest passage ever—3,300 miles of downwind sailing—my husband, Tom Bailey, and I anchored Oddly Enough, our Peterson 44, in a quiet cove in the Marquesas. As part of our maintenance routine, I checked the deck-level rigging before we sailed farther into the Pacific. I wasn’t expecting to find any problems—regular checks on the long passage hadn’t turned up anything—but when I got to the backstay, I found a pronounced crack in the top of the chainplate running through to the clevis pin.

Our options for replacing the chainplate were limited. A friend suggested we might use leaf springs from a big truck, which should be available even on an out island. We could then replace the mild steel with stainless steel when we returned to civilization. Luckily, there was a less-dramatic option. The chainplate extended far enough above the deck to cut off the top and drill a new hole for the clevis pin, which we could do using our boat tools and a drill press carried on board by the friendly owners of a powerboat.

Chainplates eventually fail due to the same factors that affect standing rigging: corrosion and metal fatigue. Corrosion can occur in the open air or in places—such as where the chainplate runs through the deck—from which oxygen is locked out; the latter is called anaerobic corrosion. Metal fatigue happens at the points where plates are subject to working—the side-to-side movement that leads to fracturing of the crystalline structure of the metal. Dyes are available that can be used to check for cracks, but it seems that chainplates are rarely tested and aren’t often removed for inspection.

When we bought Oddly Enough, we removed our chainplates and took them to a welder for inspection. They were in good enough shape to be used after he spot-welded a few areas of minor corrosion. Washers had been welded to our plates to increase the thickness of the top and so distribute the load on the pin. The welds probably weakened the metal and contributed to corrosion.

When we were finally berthed in a port with good marine facilities, it was time to replace all of the chainplates. To do this, first remove the shrouds and/or stays. Be sure you know what removing the stay will do to the rig. If you’re in a marina or a calm anchorage, it’s likely that a keel-stepped mast will continue to stand by itself if any of the shrouds are removed. But if you have any doubts, run a halyard to take up the strain. Before removing forestays and backstays, you must arrange backups. For the backstay, we rig a bridle to hawse holes at the stern, and we attach the main halyard to the bridle. For the forestay, you could use an inner forestay, if your boat has one, or better yet, rig a halyard and tension it to take the forestay’s place. Half a dozen turns off a turnbuckle will loosen the wire enough so that the clevis pin can be pulled out.

Remove all deck plates, and scrape away any sealant. The chainplates can then be unbolted and pulled up through the deck. Often, access to the bolts holding the plates to knees or to bulkheads is hidden behind interior furniture that must be dismantled. On Oddly Enough, we’d removed the locker linings to have ready access to the knees; this arrangement looks shippy rather than elegant, but it allows us to pull bolts to check for problems.

Chainplates mounted on the outside of the hull should also be inspected, as they, too, are subject to fatigue and corrosion, especially on the side facing the hull. Such chainplates are generally easier to remove and replace than the ones for inboard shrouds.

When you have new chainplates made, specify exactly what’s needed, especially if you’re sailing in remote areas. Rigging and fasteners may be specified in either metric or U.S. measurements, and it’s best to give sample pins and bolts to the machine shop. In our case, stainless-steel stock in a thickness appropriate for our lower shrouds was available in town, but not for our uppers or backstay; we had to pay for a sheet of stainless steel out of which the new chainplates were cut. The new plates came out beefier than the old, which was fine with me—chainplates should always be oversized—and it was easy enough to enlarge the holes in the deck. Finally, if your plates are bent, be sure to specify the angle you want or give the machinist the original to match.

Factors that lead to early chainplate failure can often be prevented. Clevis pins must be matched to hole size. A pin that’s too small causes point loading; instead of the upward pull of the rigging being distributed around the circumference of the hole, it’s concentrated on just the metal surface that touches the plate. Use either a larger pin or a bushing that narrows the hole to the proper size. The pin should fit snugly, but not so tightly that it must be hammered in.

One contributing factor to anaerobic corrosion is moisture trapped between the deck and the chainplate. Cover plates are bedded with sealant and screwed to the deck to help form a protective sealing rim around the straps. The cover plates can be pulled up, the straps inspected at deck level, and the covers resealed without removing the chainplates. Adding covers on Oddly Enough prevented the kind of minor corrosion that we’d had spot-welded.

It’s easy to ignore your chainplates and just hope they’re in good shape. Pulling chainplates as part of regular maintenance isn’t practical, but if you can get to your belowdecks fasteners, you should remove a few to check for moisture, which usually means there’s a leak at the deck level. Any corroded bolts should be replaced with new ones. It’s a good idea to mark which ones are prone to corrosion and check them occasionally. Pulling the clevis pin, a good maintenance practice, allows you to assess the condition of the top of your chainplates. A bent chainplate may crack at the bend, especially if the bend isn’t exactly in line with the pull of the stay. Any pumping of the rig will cause the chainplate to work back and forth. As the bend is usually at deck level, this makes pulling chainplate covers and digging out the sealant a critical check.

Regular maintenance of your chainplates, as with any piece of sailing gear, builds up a picture of what that equipment looks like when it’s in good shape and will aid you in recognizing when it’s time to make appropriate repairs.

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Home » News » Boat Nerd Tech » Marine Engineering 103: The Hidden Life of Chainplates.

Marine Engineering 103: The Hidden Life of Chainplates.

Posted on March 15, 2017 and filed under Boat Nerd Tech , Construction , Marine Engineering

In terms of unknown, unloved, and uncared-for naval engineering heroes, it’s tough to beat chainplates. That’s right, chainplates. The deeply-engineered chunks of metal or space-age composites that join hulls to rigging and masts. Chainplates aren’t exactly flashy. They do none of the sexy “sail-ish” stuff of generating lift or foiling through water. They don’t help a boat float or navigate. Think of chainplates as anchors, they merely connect. They are part of the virtual engineering chain that manages the enormous loads of a large boat moving through wind and water. Chainplates do their work using bronze, stainless steel, aluminum and composite materials like fiberglass and carbon fiber.

Chainplates Matter: On this all-composite 60-footer, we engineered composite chainplates.  The  right material. And some finesse.

Chainplates may be brave. They may be fearless. But they take some effort to understand. That makes now the time of chainplate’s secrets.

And what it takes to tell a good one from a bad one.

Right Plate In The Right Place

The big story to tell about these highly loaded anchors is how we match the right material to the right job. For centuries it was metals like iron and steel thru-bolted to heavy wood structure that were the materials of choice. But we live in the Spage Age of FRP composites. In these days newer plastics and fibers are finding their way into the chainplate food chain. The trick with these modern attachment systems is understanding how different materials affect each other when they are next to each other.

The crux is how one material communicates with another.

Mostly, chainplates made of contrasting substances are friendly, team players. The conversation between a fore stay and a stem is usually genial. But over time, that polite back and forth can turn into ugly chatter. And corrosion — the cancer of all things that float — breaks out. Corrosion can happen when two dissimilar metals are placed side by side. We boatnerds go so far as to measure and rank the “nobility” of the metallurgical spectrum of the corrosive power of conflicting materials: Steel to copper. Aluminum to Iron. Iron to Bronze. Each pairing enables corrosion in its own way. Each is a Halloween’s Eve of ghoulish what-ifs and failure scenarios.

The other story with chainplates is what it takes to patrol the borders between various materials. Will the rubber sealing compounds quietly let water creep in over its borders and bring rot and ruin to a wood or fiberglass hull? Will that metal plate start creeping away from common sealing compounds used in a cored fiberglass structure? We play the role of surveyors of these long boundaries, and stave off the material civil war that delaminates and destroys hulls.

Stainless chainplates for example are strong and sturdy. But they can be tricky when creating a long-lasting watertight boundary. The main gremlin with stainless is the thermal expansion that ultimately loosens the watertight bond between plate and hull.

To see what it takes to engineer around this threat, let’s take a look at Isobel and her seriously high-tech chainplates.

A Chainplate for All Seasons .

Complexity can yield simplicity: The fore plate is bonded into a laminated stem by cutting the member in half and gluing all back together.  This is fitting, it’s super strong, yet low-cost, blending of materials that bond well together.

Isobel is a fully-engineered composite thoroughbred. She’s 68 glorious feet of composite wood, carbon, foam, metal, and fiberglass. It was just another magic trick up sleeve fitting her with all-composite chainplates that specifically address each independant job. Look at Isobel’s bow and the complex shaping of her stem as the two sides of the hull come together. See how the surfaces must come together in a skinny, yet shapely front end. Try to imagine what it would take to make a strong-enough anchor for her powerful rig that fits into that shape. We looked at a complicated custom-crafted welded stainless plate that could contort into this tricky shape. Expensive and prone to troubles down the road. Thinking outside the box, we realized a simpler cheaper answer: split that wooden stem shape down the center, and bond in a composite plate custom-crafted and formed to smoothly accept the angle of the forestay.

Better yet, that shape could be water-jet cut from a simple, low-cost G-10 glass-reinforced-epoxy sheet. The result is a strong, efficient, gloriously water-tight chainplate that is downright cheap to make and powerful in its execution of spreading the load through the stem.

Side Plates Get Trickier

All-composite shroud plates laminated to the hull’s ring frame keeps the water out, the rig up and the owner’s piece of mind intact.

The chainplate plot thickens as we move aft. At her mid-point, Isobel is in her full composite and complex laminate glory. As with our answer at the forestay, it follows reason to engineer shroud chainplates using composites: a mostly-unidirectional carbon strap that that attaches to a hefty frame member in the hull and runs continuous fiber up and around the tube-shaped shroud barrel fitting. See how the attachment is a smooth and carefully engineered bond between plate and hull? The connection — and thus the loads — are distributed evenly over the entire fitting and down into the frame and hull. The carbon-fiber plate is light and strong, and permanently bonded to the hull in a way that metal can’t be.

The result is a complex, yet efficiently engineered attachment system that anchors the rig, keeps the water out, and the mast up: chainplates that are durable, watertight, easy to maintain, and simple to install.

Simple stainless plates might look nice and shiny. But for applications, like this they can’t offer better results.

It’s the complexity of these plates that make them simple.  

site by: slickfish studios

Chainplates

A couple quick notes:

• Use new 316 grade fasteners. Not the old ones you just took out!
• Buy new cotter pins.
• Tape traps salt and limits oxygen which promotes decay.
• Polish and freshwater extend the life of your investment.
• Re-bed your chain plates every 4-5 years.
• No silicone! the vinegar smell indicates a corrosive property stainless doesn’t like.
• We like Butyl, Uv 4000 and Sikaflex.
• Stainless hates detergents like dishwashing and laundry soaps as well as bleach!

Mack Yacht Services, Inc. we know chainplates

Not all Chainplate repairs are equal

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Schaefer offers chainplates for clevis pin sizes from 1/4" (6mm) to 5/8" (16mm). Available in straight or slightly bent and made from high quality stainless steel for a secure attachment. Also available are chainplate covers for most models. Our new water jet machine allows us to make custom chainplates for any boat on the water.

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Cost to Replace Chainplates? Should I Walk Away?

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I'm about to fly out to a pre-purchase survey on a 1985 Passport 40. I looked at a survey done on this boat last year and apparently the chainplates are original on this '85 boat. Noted was some water evidence near one of the port chainplates. I'll need to replace them regardless and would like to know what I'm in for cost-wise. I'll need to get some 316 SS water jet cut for the new chainplates and open up the interior to get the chainplates in. I'll likely do some of the work myself but may or may not depending on yard policies. Is this a $4,000 job or is it a $10,000+ job?? How much time would a yard take for this project? What would be a good yard for this in Washington? My intent is crossing oceans and voyaging for many years. I intend to own this boat for a long time. I'm experienced and have crossed oceans and I build/repair inspect aircraft for a living so not afraid of complex jobs. The survey indicates a newer Perkins installed in 2000 as well as several items I need such as wind vane and some newer sails and SSB and diesel cabin heat as well as some other recent upgrades. I realize I'll need to do a refit. I'm hoping not to do a massive years long refit turning into a money-suck. That would be dumb. If you've replaced your chainplates I'd be interested in how that went and it's cost. ...And if you know of anyone on the west US with a Passport 40 who might be willing to sell -I'm buying. Thanks in advance!  

I don't think water jet is the best tool for cutting chainplates. It leaves a somewhat coarse edge that will need to be cleaned up to avoid corrosion. Personally I'd machine then (CNC or manual). There is no way that a few custom machined bars of 316 stainless steel should cost $10k.  

-Hmmmm. I thought water jet cut absolutely razor clean edges? Hence the reason for water jet cutting recommendations on chain plates. I know the need to polish and then electropolish to remove stress risers after the cutting. Is your comment that water jet leaves rough edges conjecture or first hand? Jus wonderin. Thanks.  

One you would have to have really GOOD LUCK to find a boat with age X chainplates The cost is very much how hidden the plates are which can range from fully exposed and easy to remove to absolutely unable to even see them Making them again depends on what you are copying and there is nothing wrong with waterjet to make the shape it just a matter of to work necessary to finish the edges and bring the holes to final size compared to other methods  

As a point of reference (every boat and project is different), we replaced all of our chainplates with the rig up - 2 at a time. had new ones custom fabricated at a local shop. Did a great job! Total cost was under $400 for the fab work. We did all the installation labor ourselves.  

Well, refit is a relative word. I guess I meant offshore prep for safety. Refit seems to some to mean "replace everything". I think I used it incorrectly. Currently newer sails, refer, standing rigging instruments and engine indicate a concientious owner. I think a some of the people I see on the list are really brilliant with tools and then again some should not pick up a wrench. I see the same thing in aircraft -people buy an aircraft with starry eyes then realize they do not have the federal licence to perform the work. Parts are a fortune and so is my labor -but I'm good and very fair. The aircraft sits a long time and sucks money and tie down fees. So I think I know mostly what I'm in for. I'm intently avoiding a "project" boat. I'm attempting to take emotion out of the purchase equation but boats are alluring little beasties. I'd love to hear what someone who has done a chainplate r&r has to offer as advice on cost and time.  

I have been working on aircraft and boats all my life and now I own a machine shop. working on aircraft in front of your shop is demanding work and some times hard because of the tight space requirements. but working on a boat that is in a yard or in the water can be much harder and way more time consuming then you would think. it is not as technical but a bit like working on a big jet on a muddy dirt strip and all you have is a latter and a crescent wrench. if you forget one tool you could be done for the day.  

its not the cost of the materials it is the labor from the yard that will put the job in the $6k range. no matter which way you choose to cut stainless you will need to finish the metal to a #7 finish ( mirror ) and passivate it if you want to prevent corrosion. water jet or Laser cut will give you just as good a finish as machining in which to start the sanding and polishing process and will cost a lot less. many boats have chainplates made of standard flat bar and only require being cut to length and drilled then polished. you can also buy flat bar that is already polished to a #7. a bit expensive but saves your on labor. if you think you will keep the boat more then ten years then go Titanium. expensive but no polishing is required to prevent corrosion.  

Whats to prevent the OP from replacing the chain plates one at a time? Couldn't the work be done while the mast is still up, the boat is in the water and the yard doesn't have to know about it? That would save him thousands of dollars.  

Chainplates are just one item. I'm not familiar with the PP 40 construction. What about the bulkheads they are attached to? If they need repair or replacement that adds additional time and expense. If the surveyor only noted one point of water intrusion, you might not have a major issue there. Worth a close look. As Tommays mentioned, how accessible the chainplates are will either complicate or simplify the task ? Then there's the standing rigging. But any vessel of that age is going to have needs of that nature that should be built in to the budget, unless they've already been addressed.  

Bad chain plates and newer engine? Doesn't sound like a deal breaker to me.  

I think I've read that some people have moved chain plates to the outer hull.  

Here is how to do this on a CSY 44 CLICKY NB Several CSY 44 owners have had chainplates fail.  

Am replacing the chainplates on my boat- 8 in total. Cost Stainless metal (316) $25.00 each- cut to size, drilling the holes and welding spacers on the end. $0.00 - exchanged some wood work for the labor. Brought the stainless at http://www.pennstainless.com/ they will custom cut! Installing- about $30.00 for all new nuts and bolts, and another $40.00 for bedding material. Whatever you do DO NOT let the boatyard do this project, it's not a big deal, they wanted to charge me $200.00 per piece uninstalled.! Unless hey give you a reasonable price. But you will definitely save a lot of money by DYI. And I'm doing them 2x a time while the mast is up! no big deal here!  

Roland, Thanks for the support on this project!! You didn't mention the size of boat you did the work on but it sounds like you understand where I'm coming from. Liked that you noted the cost and suppliers. It's what I was hoping to hear. Now I just have to find somewhere to work on my boat if I go ahead with the purchase.  

I'm working on a 34 footer- finishing up somethings- in between the storms and then will start installing my chainplates. Where are you located?  

Nice boat! The Passport 40 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org group too! https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/PassportOwners  

The only big expense in replacing chainplates is if they are inaccessible - glassed to the hull, hidden by elaborate cabinetry etc. or if their attaching points are rotted - bulkhead replacement needed and so forth. If it's simply replacing like with like it shouldn't even get to a boat buck - assuming you turn the wrenches. Take one or two out and give them to the machine shop to use as templates. They should be made from flat bar, not cut out of plate with a jet. Get them electropolished for a few bucks more and replace - then two more and so on. I did them on my Columbia 43, which included a fair bit of welding and the reconstruction of a fairly elaborate headstay fitting for less that $1K.  

SloopJonB said: They should be made from flat bar, not cut out of plate with a jet. Click to expand...

Now THAT is what I'm hoping for! $1000 bucks for parts and a #(*$&load of my labor should work ok. BUT, the surveyor noted that there was water intrusion in the port forward knee. Everything being equal I believe I may go ahead with the purchase simply because all the other things I'd need for an offshore boat are mostly there and fairly servieable/newer. I'll never find a 100% boat unless it's close to $200k and if I do the work I know it's solid. I would not go ahead with a boat that had a timed out engine unless it was completely compensated for in purchase price ie. appx. $18K.  

Unless you simply like throwing away money I seriously suggest you give this man a call. He made my chain plates and another guys at my marina and they are WAY beefier than what I had and were almost too cheap to believe. Its high quality work but he charges extra for polishing, boring holes, ect ect. I just simply had the plates made and did the polishing and booring myself. I am not related to this man and have no continued working relation with him what so ever. Talon on this website also used him I believe after I gave him his info. Mr. James Idel. He works under the business Fab Solutions. His phone number is (904) 982-6113. Id give him a call- what could it hurt?  

I live near Los Angeles but the boat is in state of WA. Intent -if I ok the purchase- is leave in WA for several mos. and purchase a WA cruising permit. Do a little work on and off. Sail south. Stop in Oregon for some days on way south and enjoy seafood. Pass Kalifornia completely without stopping ashore and go to a shipyard then marina in Ensenada for several mos. Return to CA after one year. I have retained a marine atty who is consulting me on this. You-know-why.  

Actually I would like to know why. Sales tax? What is a WA cruising permit.  

Well, my intent is serious voyaging so unfortunately I cannot trust any chainplates original to the boat. I'd be tickled pink to hear they had been replaced but it probably isn't so. Stainless is one metal that has a cumulative fatigue lifespan. Stainless work hardens. Work hardening means "brittle". A chainplate cycle loads and work hardens. I've heard of people removing their 'plates and breaking them in half with their hands. Easily.  

I did exactly that with my headstay fitting. It looked O/K but had some brown staining so I buffed it up with my buffing wheels. It came up like chrome but there was a faint hairline scratch remaining - I buffed some more but it was still there. I took the whole fitting in my hands and tried to bend it whereupon it twisted like taffy and snapped through the hairline mark. I doubt it took 20 lbs of force to tear it in two and it had looked perfect - the hairline was nearly invisible. At that point I pulled them all and made up new ones.  

Thank You! I have put his contact info in my file. I'll follow up after the survey...  

FYI, after my chainplates broke a couple years ago various riggers and other experts strongly advised using the new titanium alloy chainplates are the only way to go.  

Thanks. I have heard that titanium does not corrode (or takes forever). I may pursue that route but if the trade-off in dollars for titanium 'plates is insanely high I may stick with 316. I also like that Ti does not need polishing. That because I don't see the life of a 1985 boat being 60+ years. My knowledge of titanium is relative to aircraft. I gotta assume the really huge mass of titanium required to fab up 6 chainplates is outrageously expensive. Metals have recently gone sky high in price. One tiny 3/8 aircraft bolt in titanium costs about $12++. But I applaud you for having the foresight to install titanium and never have to worry again. That's peace of mind and worth the cost.  

If your serious about going offshore then this project is a must and can be done by yourself. If your cruising plans are 10+ years and crossing several oceans then you will probably need to do the project again...probably in a little out of the way place with scant resources. I'm on my second set. DIY now, then you'll have the experience and knowledge to do it again.  

Titnium are a waste of money unless you are going to be keeping the boat for a very long time. Even thenbe why bother? You still onlyand have ten to fifteen years on the rigging. Its just another wy to spendthe more $ then youi need. Unless your circumnaving or sailing theis southern. Ocean beefy 316 will be justa fine. Id recomend titanium too if i was a seller. Motr $ in my poket.c  

This is what the person asking for advice stated: "My intent is crossing oceans and voyaging for many years. I intend to own this boat for a long time." So, with this in mind, you don't want to scrimp on chainplates.... go with Titanium. It is what you do in 2013 if you want the best.  

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Curing chainplate leaks

If your vessel has chainplates (and what sailboat doesn’t?) then you probably also have chainplate leaks. The constant flexing of the hull and rigging will eventually break down even the best sealants, allowing seawater and rain to creep along the chainplates, creating corrosion on the chainplates and the bolts, saturating cored decks, staining and rotting the cabinetry and worse. A chainplate failure can propagate to rig failure and dismasting. Because of this, fixing chainplate leaks is a high priority.

Have a good look at your chainplates after a bout of heavy weather sailing or heavy rain. Look carefully for signs of dampness or rust or discoloration on the surrounding cabinetry. Use an inspection mirror if needed to get a look at concealed chainplates, or wipe them with a soft cloth to collect any traces of rust. Remove and inspect a bolt or two even if everything appears fine. During a major refit in New Zealand, we pulled every one of our 11 chainplates and condemned three chainplates and eight bolts due to corrosion. With a competent machine shop nearby, we got new chainplates fabricated to replace the corroded ones.  

Priming the key

Over the years we have tried many products ranging from RTV silicone rubber, to BoatLife, Sikaflex, and GE SilPruf, with varying degrees of success. We have also had excellent results using Simson ISR 70-02 sealant and Simson Primer M Professional. The sealants are available in standard caulking gun cartridges in black and white. The primer is quite expensive, but do not expect success without it. The proper primer is essential to a long-lived seal, especially when bonding to stainless steel. (We have since learned that all of the polyurethane sealants work best when used with their respective primers.)

Begin by slackening the rigging turnbuckle and removing the shroud line to a safe place. Tie it to a stanchion to keep it from beating in the wind. Remove the chainplate deck trim plate and chainplate fastenings. Cut out as much sealant as possible using a utility knife. Using a rotary grinding tool, such as a Dremel tool, clean out the old sealant from around the chainplate, taking great care not to damage the chainplate itself. Grind out a bit of the surrounding fiberglass to leave a clearance space of about a quarter-inch around the chainplate so that there will be a “cushion” of sealant around the chainplate where it goes through the deck. A vacuum cleaner is a big help in keeping the work area clean. If water has gotten into the deck core material, now is the time to make that essential repair. You will want to undercut the core material and fill in the area surrounding the chainplate opening with a mixture of epoxy resin and microballoons or hull and deck putty to create a water-tight barrier.  

A halyard for purchase

If the chainplate shows rust inside the boat, then it should be removed for inspection. To remove a stuck chainplate, try pulling on it with a halyard. Be sure to tie a “preventer” to the halyard and chainplate to keep from launching the chainplate when it breaks free!

Clean and inspect the chainplate and fastenings, and do not hesitate to replace them if cracking or corrosion is present. Ideally, the chainplates should be polished to remove any scratches. Scratches are a source of stress cracking and corrosion.

Install the chainplate, making sure to use lockwashers or self-locking nuts on the chainplate bolts. If self-locking nuts (“nylocs”) are used, do not reuse the old ones, as they cannot be relied upon. Always use new self-locking nuts. If new nylocs are not available, then put a couple of drops of blue Loctite thread locker on the bolts. Give the chainplate and opening in the deck a good scrubbing with acetone or MEK, then treat the chainplate and surrounding areas to be sealed with the appropriate primer, carefully following the instructions on the container. Again, primer is the key to a successful and long-lived seal. Use masking tape to define the areas to be sealed as this will greatly assist in cleanup.

When installing the deck trim plate over the chainplate, forget about the screws holding it down to the deck. Treat the underside of the trim plate with sealant primer and install the trim plate before the sealant cures. The sealant will hold the trim plate in place. The screws are not really necessary and are sources of leaks. Allow the sealant to cure overnight before removing the masking tape. Reconnect and tension the shroud line, using a new cotter pin in the clevis. After a sail or rain, inspect the chainplate to satisfy yourself that your seal job is perfect.         

————– Harry Hungate and his wife, Jane Lothrop, have cruised in their Corbin 39 cutter, Cormorant , more than 52,000 miles since 1997. They completed a west-about world circumnavigation in December 2011. Follow their adventures on http://harryjane.weebly.com/blog.html .  

By Ocean Navigator

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