- GRAINGER DESIGNS
CRUISING NEWS
Never too young to enjoy a nice sunset.
Looloo (left) and Lucky McGee enjoying the cruising lifestyle aboard Chincogan 52 Moonraker anchored at the mouth of the estuary at the south end of Ko Phra Thong after spending a couple of weeks at Ko Phayam.
Then and now
The seafront of Cartagena in Colombia is the backdrop for two sailing vessels of different epochs and sharply contrasting character.
Against the sea wall Galeon Bucanero , a replica of a Spanish galleon of the seventeenth century is totally at home against the fortifications of this historically significant Spanish port city.
In the foreground Chincogan 52 Sole currently circumnavigating the globe stops over en route to Panama and the Society Islands.
Over the years I've received many wonderful photos of our boats from around the world. This one is an absolute classic. Many thanks to Mike and Sarah Mason for the shot.
SAILING CATAMARANS
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Matt & Jessica's Sailing Page
Experiencing the world while it's still large
What is it Going to COST to BUILD a Kit CATAMARAN? – A Comprehensive Guide (MJ Sailing)
The big question on everyone’s mind is … what is it going to COST us to build this new catamaran?
Matt has spent the past few weeks talking to the designers at Schionning and Oram, as well as professional and ameture builders to gather as much information as possible on the costs that go into building a kit catamaran. Things can obviously vary from builder to builder, but taking a simple and basic approach, we’ve narrowed down the numbers on what we estimate it will cost to build an Oram 45R.
To take a look at the full design specs, take a look here: https://www.boboramdesign.com/45r
For a quick look at the numbers, check our website: https://www.mjsailing.com/cos/oram-45r…
For a download of the spreadsheet, click here: https://www.mjsailing.com/wp-content/u…
After discussing previous builds with the many others who’ve come before us, we found out there is one small thing that can skyrocket a budget – and that is making customizations after you’ve started the build. But, if you start with good plans and commit yourself to them, it is very feesable to stick to your original budget.
Sending the above spreadsheet to both designers and builders, and asking if they were realistic figures, they all came back stating that we’ve covered all aspects and should be able to complete the project within the budget we have listed. And that, is music to our ears!!
Since this is a very long video because we have tried to keep it as detailed as possible, here is an outline of subjects covered if you’d like to bounce through to the areas that interest you:
0:00:00 – Intro by Jessica 0:03:50 – Intro by Matt 0:15:32 – Intro To Budget 0:16:30 – Costs relating to Kit 0:21:45 – Total cost of Kit shipped to the US 0:24:23 – Costs relating to Building Supplies 0:32:10 – Total costs of Building Supplies 0:32:53 – Total cost of First Year of Build (getting to paint stage) 0:35:41 – Costs relating to Paint 0:39:05 – Costs relating to Sailing (rig, sails and deck hardware) 0:45:17 – Total costs of Sailing 45:38 – Costs relating to Engines 0:50:42 – Costs relating to Steering 0:52:32 – Costs relating to Electrical System 1:00:50 – Total costs of Electrical System 1:01:07 – Costs relating to Achor (anchor, chain/rope, windlass, docking gear) 1:04:05 – Costs relating to Lights 1:07:17 – Costs relating to Galley 1:12:07 – Costs relating to Exterior 1:16:53 – Costs relating to Interior 1:17:45 – Costs relating to Heads 1:19:12 – Costs relating to Electronics 1:22:20 – TOTAL COST OF BUILD 1:26:40 – Closing by Jessica
Much love from England! Jessica, Matt & Georgie
9 Responses
Hey again M&J
Just watched you cost vid, pretty much covered it all. Awesome. I had another thought for you on the kit, ask Bob (Oram) or Jeff (Schionning) if shipping is mandatory with their kits. What I mean is, both use west system epoxy mostly although our kit also included atl kinetics resin for under waterline wetout, nevertheless you may be able to source that (and the various powder additives) locally rather than pay international shipping on it, same goes with double bias and uni glass, which leaves the composite panels. I have heard that designers may sell you the rights (single use) to the CNC files but it very much depends on if they know and trust the composite panel makers. If they do there may be a company similar to ATL in the US to make you the panels. Just a thought based solely on the absurdity of West being made in the US, shipped to Australia only to be shipped back.
Great to hear from you! *anyone reading this- Paul built a beautiful Schionning cat and did the best documentation I’ve seen of the process at Yikes.com.au
Funny, the first suggestion I received from Oram was to get my epoxy in the US. Not only is it cheaper, but apparently Epoxy is a hazardous material and just the mess of importing it is best to be avoided. But we’ll probably source the fiberglass straight from ATL. Â In the US it’s more difficult than it should be to get the designer’s suggested cloth weave and weight. Our common weights are just different enough to cause some problems that I don’t want to have to reengineer for.
I did a cursory budget for building the panels myself, but unless my supplier’s bulk pricing was way too high, the ATL price vs infusing my own panels were surprisingly close – and it was even closer getting them from Schionning’s South African manufacturer. Buying 200 sheets of Divinycell still didn’t get me into the price point to make it worthwhile 🙂 But adding the savings along with not needing shipping and import does get to the point that we’d essentially be paying ourselves a fair wage to infuse them, but I keep thinking that all it takes is one bad hull length infusion and we’d be at a large loss. It would give us continuous panels without need joints, but the South African panels are 40′ long and only need one seam now… so hardly a big benefit there either. That debate still rages on 🙂
Get out there and use that awesome boat! I can’t believe it’s been sitting on the mooring for so long without you guys at least using it as a power boat.
Hey Matt, As I suspected there’s not much you don’t already know or scoped out. I hear you regarding infusion. I did a bit of research into the kss Kelsall process but in the end decided I perhaps don’t have quite enough skill or attention to detail to be confident in my ability to infuse a 40ft panel, the last thing you want is delamination. But the “out of a mold†with paint already on sure is attractive, if I was ever to build again, anything that reduces fairing is worth it’s weight in beer in my opinion. And yes, all going well we intend using Yikes later this year, if only around our home port but I have to get the ammenities and comfort up to spec to get Jo on board. Loved the Thai charter adventure vids. Cheers Paul
Great video. Thanks for compiling all this together. It’s compelling enough that I’m seriously considering actually going for it.
Couple of questions: 1. I’m trying to scout the building locations. I live in an apt so no access to a big backyard. I know you mentioned leasing a parking lot potentially .. do you have any pointers. Logistically that seems like a huge problem that I’m struggling to overcome given that leasing an industrial warehouse (if I can find one with the doors large enough) would be at least 20K per yer for the ~2000 sq feet I’d need. 2. Have you considered Spirited Designs (as in Sail Surf Roam). What is it that ultimately made you go the Oram route? Designs seem very similar between Schionning and Oram and even the layout seems similar. 3. Oram build hours estimate and the overall cost seems much lower than Schionning. Did you figure out why that is or am I misreading something.
Thanks in advance! Good luck with your new adventure!
Build location is something we’re still struggling with too. I’ve been limited to online searches and emailing agents (Craigslist is a good source) since we are still in the UK and unable to travel back to the US to personally scout out locations. But since we can build anywhere we want, we can pick the best climate for our build (epoxies have some environmental requirements) Where are you located?
It’s almost impossible to find a warehouse with large enough doors to get a cat out in one piece unless it’s an airplane hanger. The typical way most ‘home” builders do it is to remove the wall of the warehouse to pull the boat out… it’s not that hard or expensive to do on a steel building. You just have to find a landlord that is okay with you pulling off the siding/wall and taking a frame or two down for a few days.
The Spirited Designs is a great boat, but for us, it has a few minor traits that we are looking to avoid. Plus, the 38′ is smaller and the 48’ is bigger than we want… no happy medium is offered.
The ‘Cost’ video was just our breakdown for the Oram 45R… like the build video showed the Schionning. We haven’t decided on a design yet- the Oram, Schionning and Grainger are all still 100% in the running.
The Oram is a simpler boat to build. It has a single seam at the sheerline- Schionning is multiple panels that need to be taped and faired- and it doesn’t have the extra seam on deck (another set of panels less on the Oram), and even the cabin top has one less seam (and another panel set less). For better or worse, the stock interior plan is more basic on the Oram too. One simple thing that save a lot of time is the lack of secondary floor (sole) in the hulls. Down below you stand on the hull itself without an additional raised floor like on the other boats.
I haven’t seen Oram list a lower amount of time for the build than Schionning (Grainger does show higher hours). Bob’s site say 5500-7500 hours for the 45R, while Schionning’s site says 5,000 for the Arrow 1360 (design comparison PDF). Schionning shows cost as $260,000 AUD for the 1360 and Bob say’s from $205,500 AUD to $265,500+
And a final FYI- Grainger is doing some redesigns of the Raku- along with new pricing- and will have that information out in the next few days. From talking to Tony, it sounds like they are making a big push this year. Shoot him an email (graingerdesigns.net) and he’ll keep you in the loop with the new detail.
Matt Johnson MJSailing.com
Thanks for that response. I’m down in Miami. I like the year-round warmth for epoxy curing but not sure about the rain/humidity/hurricanes. I’m debating whether I should entrust someone like Ojigawan to build it in VA and just make the trips there as often as possible but that takes the fun/experience of building out of the equation, limits the learning, and last/not least raises the cost 🙂
I did get a quote for the Schionning Arrow 1360 out of Pantawee in Thailand — PM me if you’d like to know what that looks like. In my calculation it comes down to the hourly rate of about $29 which seems very high given that the generous wages in Thailand are about $5 per day.
Good to know about Grainger — will keep my eye out for those new designs.
Did you ask Julian at Current Marine in South Africa for a quote on the Schionning? They maybe a bit more competitive than the Thailand builder since they have so much experience with Schionning (they build the foam kits that Ojigawan uses). I think they also offer pretty good pricing on mast, hardware and all the other needed supplies in SA. Take a look at Current Marine’s CM45 too- it’s an awesome Schionning design.
Good tip. Will reach out to Julian.
By the way — made some progress with locations with some help from my realtor friend. You can find ~ 3k foot parking lots in the Miami area for about 1-1.5k per month. Not cheap but certainly an option. Typically they’re in the industrial areas which have some local laborers that can help with fairing, etc.
Another interesting data point is that some of the builders are estimating about 6500-7000 hours for the arrow 1360 build and trust that 5k hours gets you a very basic/rough boat.
BTW — did you see those new Graingers? pretty sweet! Apparently they have a promotion if you’re willing to purchase plans in the month of June — not sure the details.
The discount is 10% off for the month of June. If you talk to Grainger, tell him we sent you… we get a referral for each customer that acts as a discount for our kit 😉
We’ve found lots for around $500, but those are nowhere near populated areas like Miami. Besides the rain, humidity, heat and cold, one of my big fears with building in a lot is security. We can lock up to tools and supplies in the shipping container, but I’m really looking for a good fenced in area, but this has been a bit harder to find in our price range.
I think 7000 hours is a pretty accurate timeline for a novice builder. I’ve spoken to a guy that built a beautiful Arrow 1280s in 4,000 hours, but that seems to be exceptional and not at all average.
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July / August Issue No. 299 Preview Now
Wizard sailing catamaran
The WIZARD is a 22ft sailing catamaran design that offers 5–6 berths in 3 cabins, standing headroom, easy trailing, stability AND performance. For the first time in a trailable catamaran there is a genuine double bunk.It is legally trailable world-wide behind a family car. One person can assemble and rig it in under an hour ready for launching with no heavy lifting (e.g. the mast is raised using the trailer winch).The Wizard is roomy. In its 22′ length there are 5 berths in 3 cabins for privacy (3 singles in the hulls and one double on the bridge deck), a separate toilet compartment. Galley and a dinette seating 5. There is standing headroom in the galley using a “pop bottom” in the bridge deck.It is fast, the computer predicts speeds of 10 knots under power (with a 15hp outboard) and 16-18 knots under sail (with the racing rig). These prediction have been well proven many times in practice. Yet it remains maneuverable and easy to sail single-handed. It has shallow draft and is beachable.Also check out the Sango 25ft, the big sister to Wizard ,on my website www.sailingcatamarans.com
Design Specifications
Richard Woods of Woods Designs
Foss Quay, Millbrook, Torpoint, Cornwall, PL10 1EN, UK
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The Best Advanced Build System in the World. The Schionning Advanced Build System are one of the simplest ways to build your own boat, or have a custom design built faster and more accurately by a professional. Utilising DuFlex panels with a balsa core, large sheets are joined on their long edge to form full length hull panels, bulkheads etc ...
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0:16:30 - Costs relating to Kit 0:21:45 - Total cost of Kit shipped to the US 0:24:23 - Costs relating to Building Supplies 0:32:10 - Total costs of Building Supplies 0:32:53 - Total cost of First Year of Build (getting to paint stage) 0:35:41 - Costs relating to Paint 0:39:05 - Costs relating to Sailing (rig, sails and deck hardware)
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The WIZARD is a 22ft sailing catamaran design that offers 5-6 berths in 3 cabins, standing headroom, easy trailing, stability AND performance. For the first time in a trailable catamaran there is a genuine double bunk.It is legally trailable world-wide behind a family car. One person can assemble and rig it in under an hour ready for ...
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